What I was thinking of doing isn't all that complicated. I was pretty much suggesting mapping the sorcerer class over the mage class to fix any inconsistencies. Besides, this is complicated for me personally and of my choice. It won't make the game harder for other players, who are free to use the old system. Just me (and the DM. :D <3 Tolen).

As for the assassin thing, I agree that it's not really neutral in that circumstance, but I've never been a fan of the alignment system anyway. If there were an easier way to do it so that things like protection against evil/good/etc., then I'd be for it. >.> It's better to be more lax with alignment imo, so long as it's still reasonable. A lot of it also depends on what the DM decides.

As for my character, which is fairly good aligned herself, she's adopted the philosophy that if you cut yourself off from all that is evil, you won't be able to try and influence it for the good. All it takes for evil to win is for good to do nothing. Or at least that's the gist of what I've come up with. XD It'll get more solidified as I play the character, I'm sure.

As far as Alignments go, there is nothing wrong with a neutral Assassin. In my opinion they are the worst kind, you never know what they are going to do.

Characters of All alignments kill for personal gain. Look at any set of adventurers of any alignment. All the killing done by a party is always for personal gain, does it matter that you are killing goblins or ogres, humans or giants, orcs or politicians? Killing makes you Good or Evil based on the intent. A good character kills to protect the innocent or a friend. An evil character kills because it's fun. A neutral character kills when it benefits the character.

Neutral characters do what they do with only one person in mind, themselves. The neutral character gives a begger money so that the begger will go away, not because he feels obligated to do so. A good character would feed and cloth the begger because everyone needs help. An evil character would beat or kill the begger to make him leave and never return. A neutral character is a character that does things for his own reasons and for himself. Most neutral characters have their own code of honor that they follow.

Read the Alignment section in the Assassin's Handbook.

And don't tell me that killing for personal gain isn't 'neutral' in D&D. Killing for personal gain is done by every Alignment.

For the Mage:

Use the Sorcerer, but replace the spells known/per day with the Mage's Components. Replace the special abilities with Gnosis abilities.

I took a good look at the sytem, and came to the above conclusion after comparing the costs of the Rote spells and the spells perday of both the sorcerer and the wizard. Assuming a 20th level wizard with a 23 Int (reasonable assuming you get an 18 in int and the 5 ability increases), The wizard gets 48 spells of all levels each day, not counting in pathfinder the ability to cast cantrips all day long, which skews things a bit.

The sorcerer with 23 Cha will get 68 spells.

The Mage with a 23 in his prime stat will have 465 component points. Dividing that out, to get the same number of spells each day, the wizard would be restricted to 10 points per spell, the sorcerer 7 (ish, I've rounded a bit). For the mage, those are all really low-level effects.

The most expensive Rote spell is 145 points, and it's change weather. The closest Pathfinder spell to that is Change Weather, and it's 7th level. A wizard has 4 7th level spells a day, the sorceror 6. Divide the cost into the total, and you won't be casting it as a mage as often as a wizard or sorcerer. Maybe 3 times.

Let's look at low levels, now. Sorcerer gets 4 spells per day (18 INT) at first level. The Mage 60 points. Comparing first level spells, we have armor for both classes, which the sorcerer could cast 4 times. the mage spends 22 points before metmagic points, which could reduce that to 20 even. So he can cast it 3 times. Pretty close. Other similarities: Alarm, 20 points, or 3/day (though there are differences in duration).

So basically, once you reduce the HP and saves down to 1st level range, it looks like at low levels the mage casts around the same number of spells per day, but fewer at high levels. So we'll experiment with it like that. I think the trade-off might work pretty much as is. But as GM I do reserve the right to adjust the numbers if the Mage starts to overrun the rest.

For the Assassin:

Obviously, we want to reduce the number of spells he can cast compared to the mage, wizard and sorcerer. Further, the Assassin does not get spells until 4th level. So I'm thinking at 4th level, the Assassin gets 30 points, and that increases by ten each level thereafter. That means he starts later, and gains fewer. Obviously, he'll focus mainly on illusion and shadow magic, so a penalty to cast other kinds of spells might be in order, I'm thinking a -5.

What do you think?

Sounds good to me. How would you use the -5? Would it be 5 extra component cost for spells not Shadow or Illusion based, or just an extra 5 to the DC roll of spells not Shadow or Illusion? From a player stand point I'd say just to the DC, but from a DM/GM stand point I'd say 5 extra component cost (increases the DC as well as the possible exhaustion from the spell).

Sounds good to me. Sorcerer and mage are really similar in my mind, just a mage can heal, and that's what's important to me. Not to mention the other variety of spells I could cast.

So keep the components the same for now unless you decide otherwise? And it's fine with me to make changes during play if they are needed, I'm just really interested in playing this character. Sounds like fun. :)

What about the mage paths, and the fact that the sorcerer gets far more bloodline thingies than the mage gets gnosis. We could just keep the mage chart for info on when to gain a gnosis?

I'm totally cool with your assassin, Zal. :D

Quick question: Do you think I could build some sort of heal-over-time spell by mixing in duration components? I was thinking pay for the full heal up front in components, but have it divided up over rounds of the duration. The longer the duration the more it's spread out. It'll heal for the same total amount regardless.

Originally, it was to raise the DC for those spells, but I also like the idea of those spells wearing you out faster.

We'll stick with the DC mod, though.

Alright, I'll start working on the Character and send you a copy for approval.

i didn't mean to sound like an ass. i don't think this game really suits me. good luck getting it going

So, speaking of making character sheets, what's the best way to go about doing that online? I've never played online so I'm not sure.

What would you guys suggest? Use one of the prebuilt ones in OpenRPG? Would they work with our game? : /